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Posted by: curved.space.labs Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 12:28 am
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TymezUp wrote:

Post 1996 were there any djs who really made it based on dj skills?


do you really want a list? i'd put that number in the hundreds..

TymezUp wrote:
That being said, the point I would like to make is that maybe dj's were never meant to travel.


I'm not being a dick, but this makes absolutely zero sense...


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Posted by: citizenj Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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HOW TO GET A GIG (in no particular order):

1. Practice practice practice- it's how you get to Carnegie Hall....

2. Make a professional type demo. A labelled cd in a jewel case with track listings, maybe a small info packet with bio and contact info. For the fans, give them the demos minus info. Owners/promoters- give them the whole packet. Example: I found a bunch of movie dvd cases being thrown away. What better way to spread some info about yourself. Put the cd in and a nice foldout info page- shazam- ya look like a pro.

3. Go to clubs/parties EARLY- before or right at opening time. That's the best time to bend a club owner's/promoter's ear. (Some may disagree, but that's what I've found)

4. Play HOUSE PARTIES for no pay. That's how you get your sound out and people learn who you are. (again, some may disagree, but that's what I've found)

5. Setup a website or list yourself on one of a multitude of emd sites. (what sites? that's why god invented google)

6. Face it, the first couple of years out as a dj, you're not going to make a ton of money. If you're in it just for the loot- go home. It's about making people dance and feel good. It's about getting lost in the music. Ever see that movie groove? Character 1: Why do you do this? Promoter: For the nod. Character 1: The nod? Promoter: yeah, when people walk by and give you the nod, that's their way of saying thank you. Thank you for letting me free myself and forget about the troubles of the world for a little while. (it goes kinda like that, I forget the exact quote)

7. Promote the living hell out of yourself, but do it in a humble respectful way. Don't talk shite about how great you are on the tables. Say "I play x music because it's what I enjoy. I love gettting people into my groove" Respect the listener and they will respect you.......maybe. If someone gets in yer grill because they don't dig it, remember what that jeebus guy said- forgive them father, they know not what they do.

8. Buy new records as often as possible when you can afford it. It doesn't have to be the #1 track on everybody's list. It has to be music you like, that fits your flow. Experiment. Don't be the "I only play x music because all other music sucks" guy. Nobody likes that guy. Especially Doug. ; )

9. Learn some history about the genre(s) you play. Why is Oakenfold so big, where did Juan Atkins get his start, etc... If you understand where it came from, you might understand where it's going- hell, you might be able to take it there yourself.

10. NETWORK. Get out there and meet some people ( I know, I don't do this enough, but I'm injured right now). Carry some demos. Ask people if they've got demos. Get some business cards. Pass em out. Meet people on the net. FIND AND JOIN YOUR LOCAL EMD WEB SITES (like clevelandnightlife.net- although if you're reading this, you prbly already have). Even if you don't get more gigs, you'll have more friends and that'll be good for you too.


Maybe I'm full of shite here, but that's what I've done the last 7 years and I've enjoyed some moderate success. They've had me out to play LA, Chicago and NYC, so I must be doing something right. Yeah, I'm not king of the local scene, but I don't really want to be.


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Posted by: Tymezup Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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curved.space.labs wrote:
TymezUp wrote:

Post 1996 were there any djs who really made it based on dj skills?


do you really want a list? i'd put that number in the hundreds..


Djs who made it based purely on dj skills after 1996? That means they didn't have production credit to their name before they started djing and they never played out before 1996. Yes, I would like a list -- and if they are people who have reputation as not really being all that as a dj then they are getting knocked off.

curved.space.labs wrote:

TymezUp wrote:
That being said, the point I would like to make is that maybe dj's were never meant to travel.


I'm not being a dick, but this makes absolutely zero sense...



When I say that, I'm suggesting that the promotion of djs as rockstars and the elevation of them to the same level as a band was never meant to happen.

I'm suggesting that a dj is a dj - someone who plays other peoples music. A "DISC JOCKEY" is someone who is skilled in entertaining any given room of people. An electronic music artist, is skilled at entertaining his specific audience (some have wider appeal than others).

I'm suggesting that given the fact that many "djs" have gone beyond just playing music and the paths of "dj" and "electronic music artists" are diverging and that in the future "electronic music artists" will no longer be known as djs. While turntablism is mechanical manipulation of existing music, playing with loops and using software to control them is way closer to production (expecially when many "tracks" are built of those same loops).

I think that producers became djs primarily to be able to perform live the music they are known to produce. In addition, this has become their primary source of income in an musical economy who's core audience thinks it all should be free or worth 99 cents. While I think that there is a market for underground artists to be heard - I believe that the mixture of the two roles has had a detrimental effect on progressive (not the music genre of the same misnomer) clubbing.

While there are many many talented djs who have a passion for their sound and art... I believe that we have lost an increasing amount of people to the more familiar "top 40" format because there are very few djs skilled in the art of programming left to pull people into the underground.


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How to get a DJ gig (how it worls for me)


1. Make your face known. Go out and talk to people, make friends, talk to other djs. I used to go out as much as possible talking to poeple and supporting other djs. Its tough going out during the week with a full-time job, but I made sacrifices. Talk to people with experience in this field...ask questions. Record shops are a great place to get info and meet people

2. Make a mixtape of yourself and hand it to everyone you know, post it on the internet in forums. Let people know what your about.

3. Open-table nights are a great way to get people to notice you and to practice on big room sound.

4. Self-promote, be able to differ yourself from other djs, and be able to back it up.

5. Let your music speak for itself. Be confident in what u do and how you dj. Know how to use the equipment. Making an ass of yourself wont get gigs.

6. Do these things all the time, it wont happen overnight - it takes time and can be exhausting. Dont give up, if you love what u do people will recognize that.

-these are just things that worked for me in the past, they may not work for you. Don't give up to soon!!!!!

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Posted by: Derek Carney Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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damien wrote:
...Making an ass of yourself wont get gigs...


Unless, of course, you call yourself d-WRECK and make a point of making an ass out of yourself...

(as in train-wreck!) :wink:

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damien wrote:
How to get a DJ gig (how it worls for me)


1. Make your face known. Go out and talk to people, make friends, talk to other djs. I used to go out as much as possible talking to poeple and supporting other djs. Its tough going out during the week with a full-time job, but I made sacrifices. Talk to people with experience in this field...ask questions. Record shops are a great place to get info and meet people

2. Make a mixtape of yourself and hand it to everyone you know, post it on the internet in forums. Let people know what your about.

3. Open-table nights are a great way to get people to notice you and to practice on big room sound.

4. Self-promote, be able to differ yourself from other djs, and be able to back it up.

5. Let your music speak for itself. Be confident in what u do and how you dj. Know how to use the equipment. Making an ass of yourself wont get gigs.

6. Do these things all the time, it wont happen overnight - it takes time and can be exhausting. Dont give up, if you love what u do people will recognize that.

-these are just things that worked for me in the past, they may not work for you. Don't give up to soon!!!!!


I agree with this. I will add be confident...not cocky! Too many people with egos thinking its all about them when in fact it really is all about the music and the scene! Also, there are waaaay too many people who are frustrated after being at this for two or three years! It takes a whole hell of a lot more time than that to be known and to be respected! I've been Djing roughly 10 years...but I've only considered myself to be a DJ for almost 5.

Finally, when in doubt...practice practice practice! Even internationally well known DJs who get booked for thousands of dollars have been known to train wreck and I for one will never support them in any way ever again!

Learn your craft and most importantly love it like no other!

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Posted by: curved.space.labs Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 11:55 am
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TymezUp wrote:

Djs who made it based purely on dj skills after 1996? That means they didn't have production credit to their name before they started djing and they never played out before 1996. Yes, I would like a list -- and if they are people who have reputation as not really being all that as a dj then they are getting knocked off.


without spending all afternoon actually trying to compile such a list, here are a few off the top of my head...Dara, AK, Dieselboy, Marky, Patife, Lee, Moshic, Craze, Burner Bros., Mathematics, Aki, Reid Speed, Odi, Swingsett, Dinky, etc...that's not a hundred, but i just woke up, and the point is that there are plenty out there on all levels, from internationally known, making $1000/hr, to moderately known yet still successful, all the way down to the local djs who run their cities...they are as known as they can be relative to that market.

and why 96? that's completely arbitrary and meaningless. people producing their own tunes is not exclusive to 1997 thru the present; and people who make shitty music dont become international stars (generally, not talking preference here). In the end, its not worth debating. you could argue til you're blue in the face over whether or not DJ Krush got his recognition thru his DJing skills, or his tunes. if you're good enough, you'll find your way thru the maze to the top, regardless of whether or not you make your own tracks.

Deviant makes a lot of good points re: this in this thread.

TymezUp wrote:
I'm suggesting that given the fact that many "djs" have gone beyond just playing music and the paths of "dj" and "electronic music artists" are diverging and that in the future "electronic music artists" will no longer be known as djs. While turntablism is mechanical manipulation of existing music, playing with loops and using software to control them is way closer to production (expecially when many "tracks" are built of those same loops).

I think that producers became djs primarily to be able to perform live the music they are known to produce. In addition, this has become their primary source of income in an musical economy who's core audience thinks it all should be free or worth 99 cents. While I think that there is a market for underground artists to be heard - I believe that the mixture of the two roles has had a detrimental effect on progressive (not the music genre of the same misnomer) clubbing.

While there are many many talented djs who have a passion for their sound and art... I believe that we have lost an increasing amount of people to the more familiar "top 40" format because there are very few djs skilled in the art of programming left to pull people into the underground.


part of the problem you're addressing is that you're in Cleveland, OH, dude. This has never been, nor will it ever be a city where electronic music will grow and thrive. this is a rock and roll town, sadly.

as for the whole demo thing...getting a gig is a combination of talent and being able to sell yourself. Confidence breeds success. Quick story from my time in NYC, the most competetive dj market in the states, if not the world::

After attending parties 3-4 times a week as soon as we got there, not only did we meet a shitload of djs and party goers into the same music we were (techno, house, dnb), we saw that its not that hard to throw a party, so we walked up to the people running one of the clubs that we'd been going to, and without even dropping a demo, had a weekly...albeit a Monday --which was still doable in nyc -- , but it was a start. We did quite a few weeklies and bi-weeklies like that for about the first 8 months we were there, and then one day, in the spring of '99, my best friend who was part of my band was walking back to our place in Chinatown, and passed some work being done inside a barber shop a few blocks from our spot...they were turning it into a bar. So that same afternoon, we walked back over there with a few different demos...CASSETTE tapes, my friend. Not even cds cuz we didnt have a burner....and basically we talked ourselves up and locked down Friday. It quickly became one of the most popular nights in the NYC underground...because it was all about vibes..it was a showcase for local talent, run by 3 guys from buttfuck OH, who didnt give a shit about pretense or any of that shit...it was all about the music, and everyone knew it. Shit was photographed for magazines in Japan, it was reviewed in other publications, full of people wanting to be seen there like Courtney Love, Alexander Hacke from Einsturzende Neubauten, blah blah blah....very successful party that went for a year and a half....it ended up getting us booked at a shitload of other parties, and helped get recognition for our live electronic band.

moral? Shit like that happens in places like SF, NYC, LA, etc...not cleveland, or louisville, ky, or asheville, nc. You'll have no problem getting a gig as a dj if what you play caters to the demand. In Cleveland the demand is rock, 80s, etc...NOT underground electronic. That being said, what little scene there is, you can still do your part and be involved in, and if you're truly inspired by the music, and you are good, then you shouldn't have any problems getting gigs...its just about how many people you want to hear you play.

that goes to why i think you're statement on djs not meant to travel makes no sense. if you don't want anyone to hear you, then stop before you start. If you do want it, then you have to go where the action is. Its really that simple. DJing is about moving people...and i've never met one DJ, big name or otherwise, who told me that they hated to travel, rock crowds of hundreds or even thousands, and get paid for doing it...

dj vodka wrote:
my friends know that i am always bitching about not being able to find djs. as i always say "there's a million djs in this town, but i can't find one to play." this isn't a knock on the local talent, i just can't seem to find people who are diverse and eclectic with their mixes.


yeah, well most djs get into a specific genre and stick with it, and that kinda sucks...i'll play dnb, techno, old ambient/idm, hip hop, etc...this is one of the reasons our parties were so successful in NYC - they were always a mixed bag. a set of techhouse, followed by a guest playing drumnbass, followed by another guest playing techno, closed out by the residents tagging hiphop. btw, what bar do you own/work at???

deviant wrote:
there are only so many ways that you can stand out.
the best way to stand out is to rock the decks with good skills and even better selection. Track selection is probably the most important aspect of djing. There is no accounting for taste, and most run of the mill djs don't have any. But if you play wicked tunes, and are solid on the mixer/creative, you won't have any problems getting gigs or recognition, if you want it enough.


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Posted by: Tymezup Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Dara - was known as a dj prior to '96 (1994)
AK1200 - had a career in edm in the '80s
Dieselboy - had a career in edm (and headling raves) in the early 90's.
Marky & Patife - Known for production before djing, methinks, could be wrong.
Mathematics - Isn't this a GROUP known for their production?
Odi - Isn't he a relic of the 1996 rave era?

Craze -- your absoultely righy here. I didn't think to include turntablists because what they do is very much different and ads a whole different level to the discussion.

I guess the proper way to have said it was:
"Who has made post 1996 as being exclusively a dj (who wasn't already established)". With the exception of turtablists, I still maintain that post 1996 no one has gotten big on dj skills alone. There are exceptions. I think there will be more and more exceptions, but they will be people who are mixing up styles and genres.

I guess that this part of the conversation is at a dead end. The original point is that back in the day, producers and djs were two different things. Over the course of the last 8-10 years they have become one in the same. For forward progression to occur, then those roles have no choice but to diverge.


curved.space.labs wrote:

part of the problem you're addressing is that you're in Cleveland, OH, dude. This has never been, nor will it ever be a city where electronic music will grow and thrive. this is a rock and roll town, sadly.


That's the kind of backwards mentality that gets us NOWHERE. If you really thing that Cleveland was never a city where Dance music thrived, you really need to get schooled.

-- In the late 70's, Cleveland was home to one of the nationally syndicated "disco" television shows.

-- Cleveland is home to two djs who travelled the nation opening for 90's breakbeat/rave act NRG.

-- The first Moonshine Over Amercia tour made it on the cover of the UK version of Mixmag -- specifically a story about how they couldn't believe how much dance music thrived in Cleveland.

-- UNDERGROUND NEWS a nationally publicated dance music magazine was based out of Cleveland, OH.

-- The biggest guage I can think of is that many artists (moby, prodigy, et al) were (before they were known) able to play CLEVELAND to packed rooms when they could barely find an audience in most other comparable US cities.

Anyone living in Cleveland during that time can tell you -- we knew we were on top of our game. We didn't want to be anything else. We had a sound and an identity.

Now I don't want to dwell in the past, and I'm not doing that -- but on the same token we can't keep looking at things like this. It's lack of respect for Cleveland that turns people off and when peopel say things like that it makes them look silly.


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Posted by: Tymezup Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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One other thing... about the travelling comment... your right... no one i know would ever think about not travelling when asked.

However, there is a difference between being asked to play a gig of notariety and making your money from having a residency. Paying 1,000+ for a dj is silly when you can get a band for that.

Travelling should be the exception and not the rule and treated as the highest honor that there is.


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Posted by: Derek Carney Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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TymezUp wrote:
That's the kind of backwards mentality that gets us NOWHERE. If you really thing that Cleveland was never a city where Dance music thrived, you really need to get schooled.

-- In the late 70's, Cleveland was home to one of the nationally syndicated "disco" television shows....
...-- The biggest guage I can think of is that many artists (moby, prodigy, et al) were (before they were known) able to play CLEVELAND to packed rooms when they could barely find an audience in most other comparable US cities.


-adding to that:

Don't forget about Sleepy C, Dan Curtain, and Kevin Cunningham, among others... who started off their DJing and producing skills right here in C-town.

Didn't Greenskeepers just say that their recent gig at Wish was the best party they've done? Didn't John Howard say he'd come back here anytime he was asked to play? Karl Almaria also cannot wait to come back.

Cleveland may not have wall-to-wall people at the edm events and clubs, but the people that do support are into it...they're knowledgable about the music, and they know how to have a good time. Isn't that why we go out?

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DJ Dwreck wrote:

Cleveland may not have wall-to-wall people at the edm events and clubs, but the people that do support are into it...they're knowledgable about the music, and they know how to have a good time. Isn't that why we go out?


i've found truth in this also, some DJ's and clubgoers i've talked to at places around town who have come from different states have told me that at events in their towns, there isn't much "soul" to the parties. sure, they have a packed room, and the clubs are bigger than what we have here, but the vibe isn't the same. that's a good feeling, hopefully one we will keep Cool


good advice guys, i must say as a noob i would luv to start playing out eventually and there's been a lot of tips here i could use. keep em coming, cheers!

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Posted by: curved.space.labs Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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TymezUp wrote:
Dara - was known as a dj prior to '96 (1994)


ooohhh ....2 years OMG!! dude, he was not huge, sorry. i've known him personally for 7 years, and 97 is about when his career shifted. anyways, who the fuck cares what year it was????? He's a DJ who got big on dj skills, not producing, period.

TymezUp wrote:
AK1200 - had a career in edm in the '80s
Dieselboy - had a career in edm (and headling raves) in the early 90's.


take a poll and see what the percentage is for how many people heard of these guys before 98... give me a break. you are a little too anal about this for your own good.

TymezUp wrote:
Marky & Patife - could be wrong.


in a word, yes, you're wrong....but again, it's just one example that proves your theory that no one gets big on dj skills these days...all the little perceptive nuances about "was this guy famous at this point" are meaningless, because a lot of it is subjective.

TymezUp wrote:
Mathematics - Isn't this a GROUP known for their production?


now they are, yeah....but Roy & James were well established DJs before they decided to started producing.

and yeah, you're right, this is done because its worthless to argue about. I mean, I could flip it, and start talking about all the djs pre-98 that did both and were recognized as both djs and producers, blurring the lines btw the 2 like you're talking about (Ken Ishii, Jeff Mills, DJ Dan, Aquasky, but to what end? You'd just try and look for some vague technicality to back your assertions.

TymezUp wrote:
curved.space.labs wrote:

part of the problem you're addressing is that you're in Cleveland, OH, dude. This has never been, nor will it ever be a city where electronic music will grow and thrive. this is a rock and roll town, sadly.


That's the kind of backwards mentality that gets us NOWHERE. If you really thing that Cleveland was never a city where Dance music thrived, you really need to get schooled.

-- In the late 70's, Cleveland was home to one of the nationally syndicated "disco" television shows.

-- Cleveland is home to two djs who travelled the nation opening for 90's breakbeat/rave act NRG.

-- The first Moonshine Over Amercia tour made it on the cover of the UK version of Mixmag -- specifically a story about how they couldn't believe how much dance music thrived in Cleveland.

-- UNDERGROUND NEWS a nationally publicated dance music magazine was based out of Cleveland, OH.

-- The biggest guage I can think of is that many artists (moby, prodigy, et al) were (before they were known) able to play CLEVELAND to packed rooms when they could barely find an audience in most other comparable US cities.

Anyone living in Cleveland during that time can tell you -- we knew we were on top of our game. We didn't want to be anything else. We had a sound and an identity.

Now I don't want to dwell in the past, and I'm not doing that -- but on the same token we can't keep looking at things like this. It's lack of respect for Cleveland that turns people off and when peopel say things like that it makes them look silly.


that was me getting "schooled"? wow......cleveland got written up in a mag, and a whopping 2, count 'em - 2 djs toured the nation in the 90s.

that's some serious shit you came at me with there...i'm nearly speechless.

First off, i'll let you in on a little secret - I was born and raised in Cleveland, so i'm more than qualified to speak on the city and its various scenes.

Secondly, I wasn't trying to bash Cleveland or anything like that. One of the drawbacks about trying to have discussions on the internet is how often people get misunderstood...it just turns into ad hominem attacks and the issues become lost.

Let me just say that your attempt at defending this city's scene is no more than letting your emotions get the best of you.... Your points are well-intentioned, but not really doing anything but showing that you desperately want Cleveland to be recognized as something it is not. Disco and the 70s are completely non sequiter. Underground News? Never heard of it, and i've been writing and listening to electronic since the 80s...Moby liked playing here.... ummmmmm.....c'mon dude, you're going to have to do better than that.

Let me ask you something. Have you ever been to other cities in this country, and elsewhere? If not, i'd suggest a trip to San Francisco or London or Berlin or Tokyo. Spend some time in places like that, and then try to tell me that the scene here is doing anything other than dangling by a string.

Look, I would love more than anything to see this city have a thriving dance music scene. I've only been back a short while, and the fact that there's a dnb weekly shows that things can always improve. (as a matter of fact, when i came back, i was trying to figure out on Earth I'd be able to throw a party here w/ dnb and/or techno, and then, bam!, there's Drum Riot. I was so happy to see that, and I have done nothing but support it. I think its awesome. But the truth is, overall, as far as how things can be judged against other scenes, its not thriving - its barely here. Its ok to admit it. It doesnt mean that what you or I or anyone else does here is any less important or less meaningful than what djs in elsewhere do. It doesnt mean that people shouldn't continue to try to grow the scene by leaps and bounds. It just means theres a shitload less of us, and also a lot less people supporting us. I realize that success can come from anywhere...most hollywood actors are not from LA, to use the film industry as an analogy. But they dont usually get recognized until they move there. That's one of the points i was trying to make. That if you want to make it as a DJ, the overwhelming odds are you are gonna have to go where the shit is really appreciated on a scale that Cleveland will never know.



anyways, just forget I said anything. I dont want my words taken out of context, or used against me out of spite in the future. Its all good.


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Posted by: curved.space.labs Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 6:16 pm
Joined: 27 Apr 2005  Posts: 1275
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Location: The Bay Area
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DJ Dwreck wrote:
I'd take quality over quantity anyday.


i'm not sure to what it is you're referring, but i agree... Very Happy


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Posted by: Jam_III [Joe] Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 6:26 pm
Joined: 12 May 2004  Posts: 183
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i don't know, personally :wink: i am kind of digging the scene here. if i wanted to be in a packed room where i could hardly see the DJ and or move, i can go 3 hours up to Detroit, or a bit farther to Chicago. in some aspects, i wouldn't want it to become too big here. it feels like we are almost at grassroots right now. i'm glad i can go out to a EDM event here, and though its not packed, know that everyone there luvs the music as much as me. i think a lot of things that come with a big, "popular" scene retrograde the original purpose.

it reminds me a bit of what happened to the phish / hippy scene over the last 6-8 years. people started coming to the shows for all the wrong reasons, not for the music. eventually the shows and festivals got waaay overcrowded with people who sometimes wouldn't even leave the tents to listen to the band. (i will admit drugs had a lot to do with it.) the festivals became so big i would be lucky if i could get close enough to see the stage, let alone the band. the scene didn't feel intimate anymore.

i think a lot is sacrificed when things get too big. i'm not saying that more support than what i've seen around town would be bad, just that after a certain point i think it takes away from it. i am enjoying what is going on here right now, and i am really appreciative of the people who are making it happen. you don't have to be big to be the best to some people! Very Happy

just my opinion! i'm sure every last person feels differently on this whole issue so don't get me wrong on it.

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Posted by: jealeigh Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 8:42 pm
Joined: 31 Mar 2004  Posts: 505
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Location: Pittsburgh / Cleveland
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curved.space.labs wrote:


part of the problem you're addressing is that you're in Cleveland, OH, dude. This has never been, nor will it ever be a city where electronic music will grow and thrive. this is a rock and roll town, sadly.


Yet sadly.. you seem to lack what we have had here in the past, whats progressed since.. and where we all tend to take it. Dont come to this city and hate on the people that enjoy doing what they do. We do have thrive, and we all live off each other.. and support each other. Its sad that one person can come here, and tell us that our scene here wont grow because its a rock and roll town..

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Posted by: curved.space.labs Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 2:15 am
Joined: 27 Apr 2005  Posts: 1275
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jealeigh wrote:
curved.space.labs wrote:


part of the problem you're addressing is that you're in Cleveland, OH, dude. This has never been, nor will it ever be a city where electronic music will grow and thrive. this is a rock and roll town, sadly.


Yet sadly.. you seem to lack what we have had here in the past, whats progressed since.. and where we all tend to take it. Dont come to this city and hate on the people that enjoy doing what they do. We do have thrive, and we all live off each other.. and support each other. Its sad that one person can come here, and tell us that our scene here wont grow because its a rock and roll town..


thanks for reading all of my post before responding... Rolling Eyes

csl wrote:
wasn't trying to bash Cleveland or anything like that. One of the drawbacks about trying to have discussions on the internet is how often people get misunderstood.


and speaking of...if you would've actually read my post, you would've realized I'm from Cleveland....how can I "come to this city" if I'm from here???????????

what's sad is that you cant comprehend what I wrote. try re-reading that ish before letting your emotions take over...



Quote:
Look, I would love more than anything to see this city have a thriving dance music scene.


Quote:
It doesnt mean that what you or I or anyone else does here is any less important or less meaningful than what djs in elsewhere do. It doesnt mean that people shouldn't continue to try to grow the scene by leaps and bounds.


^^^way to overlook that part of my post....thanks.


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Posted by: Tymezup Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 3:28 am
Joined: 01 Feb 2004  Posts: 5295
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Location: Cleveland, OH
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curved.space.labs wrote:

You'd just try and look for some vague technicality to back your assertions.


No, you didn't even really try to hear what I was saying. When you said "YOU ARE WRONG... blah blah blah doesn't produce" the point I was making is that you don't need to produce to be a dj. Maybe you don't agree with me when I say that the paths of dj and producer are indistinguishable right now to average joe. Maybe you actually disagreed when I suggest that the paths of dj and producer will begin to separate again, leaving the DJ market wide open. I don't know, you really haven't offered much to the conversation other than to say "Your wrong.... i did this and that and I know".

Look, obviously you haven't tried to see what I was saying. Perhaps I don't get my points accross well. When I say stuff it is up for debate, but I don't respond well to someone who doesn't at least try to see the point I was making and expand on it or try to change my mind. Don't take a condescending attitude.


One thing I do want to be clear on:

curved.space.labs wrote:

Your points are well-intentioned, but not really doing anything but showing that you desperately want Cleveland to be recognized as something it is not.


You got that all wrong, pal, I want Cleveland to be recognized for what it is - not for what someone says it can't be.

I'm sick of people who blame Cleveland for their own mistakes, so when I see someone else do that it pisses me off.

You may or may not be one of these people, but I'm sick of people using words like "miami, new york, uk, ibiza, global" and then say "we are going to change cleveland". After they fail, those are the people who then usually turn around and say "all they want is top 40, 80's etc" and the never once consider that maybe... just maybe... they did something wrong.


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Posted by: jealeigh Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 8:38 am
Joined: 31 Mar 2004  Posts: 505
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Location: Pittsburgh / Cleveland
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curved.space.labs wrote:
thanks for reading all of my post before responding... Rolling Eyes


I have been reading this thread thank you very much.

csl wrote:
wasn't trying to bash Cleveland or anything like that. One of the drawbacks about trying to have discussions on the internet is how often people get misunderstood.


Its not that I misunderstood your comments.. its the fact that youre coming over here from New York, and jumping on this board.. and basically letting anyone, and everyone know that there's no future to what we do here..

csl wrote:
and speaking of...if you would've actually read my post, you would've realized I'm from Cleveland....how can I "come to this city" if I'm from here???????????


I know youre from here, you told me twice when we met. BUT you came from New York and youre judging the scene here like it should be competition to whats going on there. We have a small family here.. yeah, I sad small, but atleast everyone that is here doing their thing has heart. We've kept it going for sometime now, and thats why I put my two sense into this conversation.

csl wrote:
what's sad is that you cant comprehend what I wrote. try re-reading that ish before letting your emotions take over...


Whats really sad is youre arguing on a message board... for what? Seriously.. I dont think Ive ever seen you out at any other weeklies here in Cleveland besides Spy. Do yourself a favor and explore whats going on here before you judge what "we're all about"..


csl wrote:
Look, I would love more than anything to see this city have a thriving dance music scene. It doesnt mean that what you or I or anyone else does here is any less important or less meaningful than what djs in elsewhere do. It doesnt mean that people shouldn't continue to try to grow the scene by leaps and bounds.


^^^way to overlook that part of my post....thanks.[/quote]

And what do you do to contribute to this scene here in Cleveland?..

Come on. Seriously.. Im so tired of seeing people bitch, moan and complain about "Clevelands scene" when ESP. we're getting spoiled right now.

I dont want to sit here and argue either, but I dont think its right for you to possibly give up hope for anyone that still has it here. There's alot of people busting their asses to keep things rolling, and enjoying themselves while they do it..

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Posted by: curved.space.labs Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 12:17 pm
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TymezUp wrote:

No, you didn't even really try to hear what I was saying. When you said "YOU ARE WRONG... blah blah blah doesn't produce" the point I was making is that you don't need to produce to be a dj. Maybe you don't agree with me when I say that the paths of dj and producer are indistinguishable right now to average joe. Maybe you actually disagreed when I suggest that the paths of dj and producer will begin to separate again, leaving the DJ market wide open. I don't know, you really haven't offered much to the conversation other than to say "Your wrong.... i did this and that and I know".


what? Maybe you need to re-evaluate, and go back to the beginning of this thread and re-read it. I offered my observations based on personal experiences. I wasnt disagreeing that the average person probably doesn't make the distinction btw the 2, I was disagreeing with your point that a DJ cannot be relatively successful without being known as a producer.

Jesus christ, I'm pretty sure I made that clear.

TymezUp wrote:
Look, obviously you haven't tried to see what I was saying. Perhaps I don't get my points accross well. When I say stuff it is up for debate, but I don't respond well to someone who doesn't at least try to see the point I was making and expand on it or try to change my mind. Don't take a condescending attitude.


All I can do is respond to what you have written. I wasn't trying to be condescending, I was merely addressing your points.

TymezUp wrote:
One thing I do want to be clear on:
curved.space.labs wrote:

Your points are well-intentioned, but not really doing anything but showing that you desperately want Cleveland to be recognized as something it is not.


You got that all wrong, pal, I want Cleveland to be recognized for what it is - not for what someone says it can't be.


dude, you told me you were going to school me on how Cleveland is the shit, and you brought nothing but the weaksauce. What do you expect my response to be?? When I said Cleveland will never be a dance music giant, I was just being realistic. Again, if you would just once try to get beyond the defensiveness, and read all of what I posted, instead of just what you misinterpret as an attack, you'd see that I actually would love for Cleveland's scene to be better than it is. Why wouldn't I? I've been into electronic music since I was a kid. I love writing it, I love playing it, spinning it, and most of all just listening to it. I did my part for years and years trying to get people into it here, and the demand for it and understanding of it, etc... was never here. Yeah, a rave here and there, that's great. But I'm not into this as a hobby, its what my life has been about, and will always be about, so when what you do cannot be supported where you're at, after you've spent much of your life trying to effect change, you pick up and go where you're appreciated. I'm very sorry, but this "we like our scene small" attitude just doesn't cut it.

TymezUp wrote:
I'm sick of people who blame Cleveland for their own mistakes, so when I see someone else do that it pisses me off.


I'm not sure who you are talking about, because I can assure you I don't blame Cleveland for anything.

TymezUp wrote:
You may or may not be one of these people, but I'm sick of people using words like "miami, new york, uk, ibiza, global" and then say "we are going to change cleveland". After they fail, those are the people who then usually turn around and say "all they want is top 40, 80's etc" and the never once consider that maybe... just maybe... they did something wrong.


I'm not one of those people.


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