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Posted by: Tymezup Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 12:48 pm
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Location: Cleveland, OH
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I want to post an answer to this on my events mailer for the next couple of weeks.

I'm looking to you guys (promoters etc) to help me mold the final copy of what goes up there. I have a few ideas, but I want to hear from you first.

I want to know what you think about demos. I want to know what the #1 reason to book a dj (if you are a promter) is. I want to know about getting paid vs doing it for free.

I want you to discuss NETWORKING.

I want to know what you think about DEMOS and if they are relevant.

What are the place you can go, and play at? Open tables of sorts.

I think we need to help other figure stuff out Wink Promoters... Speak up!


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Posted by: Tekatoka Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 1:56 pm
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Who is the audience for this?

Clubs needing advice on what to look for when booking DJs?

Bedroom DJs looking to play out for the first time?

Experienced DJs looking for a residency?

I think the answers to your question largely depend on who you're targeting the message to.

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Posted by: Tymezup Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 2:06 pm
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Uhm....

I am posting the answer to "HOW TO GET A DJ GIG" on my mailer this week. What more info do you need than that? It is for EVERYONE. People who have been at it 15 years who can't get a gig, people who are bedroom djs, people looking to meet others? People looking to get paid, people who aren't. Residencies, non-residencies.

I was gonna post what I had thought of... but wanted discussion on it first.

Basically its a how to guide. I want to discuss the irrelevance? of demos, if you are looking to play out. I've seen guys walk into a club, and drop off a demo, then walk out. I don't think they worth anything if you are looking for bookings... only if you are looking for fans.

I want people to know there is a scene, if you know where to look. I know peabodies is booking djs again, rain open tables, and even grotto tables based on experience/social status.

I'm providing some commentary.

Then listing some places to go if you are looking.


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Posted by: validation Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 2:19 pm
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i'm always looking for djs who are creative with their mixing, programming, and track selection. when i get a disc of all the new house tracks mixed together seemlessly, i'm not really excited. if i get something with new and old songs, maybe some acapellas, and few surprises, then i take notice. i still believe in demos, because in my opinion, if you can't get your shit together to put together a 60 minute mix, how i can i trust that you are able to move a dancefloor properly. open tables are fine, but it always seems to be the same people playing and i've really never 'discovered' anybody new at these nights. in my experience, the people who can't provide me with a mix, usually end up not being worth a gig. obviously there are exceptions, djs who have been around forever who i've never heard on cd, but play out alot, are obviously more than worthy.


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Posted by: Jamie Tyler Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 2:26 pm
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befriend promoters.

promoters book their friends.


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Posted by: validation Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 2:31 pm
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Quote:
befriend promoters.

promoters book their friends.


this is a good way to start, but definitely not a sure thing. i have many friends who i never book. i actually like working with people who are unknown, it's just hard to find them.

my friends know that i am always bitching about not being able to find djs. as i always say "there's a million djs in this town, but i can't find one to play." this isn't a knock on the local talent, i just can't seem to find people who are diverse and eclectic with their mixes.


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Posted by: Tymezup Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 2:39 pm
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So...

"If you are playing a pile of records no one knows, a demo isn't worth anything to a promoter."

however

"If you are playing a pile of records everyone knows, and can't program new music in unique and original way, then you aren't of much value either".

I might turn this into a reference webpage.


"blah blah blah".... mister bradley p of b-sides

"babble babble babble babble" amy dana of headrush music.

"la la la la" nikki of phuture physix

etc.


I want to do something that gives djs hope, and inspires them to work harder at their craft.


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Posted by: validation Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 2:43 pm
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Quote:
"If you are playing a pile of records no one knows, a demo isn't worth anything to a promoter."


not sure i agree with that. many times i have heard cds from bigger djs of all music i have never heard before and have absolutely loved it.


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Posted by: Tekatoka Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 3:09 pm
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I think Brad would agree with me here, because I think we're saying the same thing: And that is, you have to be passionate about what you do to the extent that you love it SO much you have come up with an identity, a sound, a vision for yourself that you have perfected to the point that other people can see and hear, too. AND, once you've accomplished that, you have to find a promoter or club who shares that vision and will let you do your thing. I asked about the audience for this "How to" because I think there are different kinds of promoters. You can't just be a DJ thinking that just any promoter will book you, because not all promoters promote the same kinds of events or music. I'm not sure how 'hopeful' of a message that is, but I do think that expectations need to be managed around what kinds of promoters book what kinds of DJs for what kinds of parties.

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Posted by: Tekatoka Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 3:12 pm
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Whoops, meant to say this, too: Yes on the demos. Absolutely. It's like a resume. The demo should be professionally presented. A disc with sharpie permanent marker "Joe's Spring demo" is fine from a friend giving me something to listen to in the car, but if Joe's applying for a gig, it should be handled professionally. Would you show up to a job interview in your PJs with your resume scrawled on a napkin? No. Then why should your musical identity be packaged sloppy; or worse, not at all?

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Posted by: validation Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 3:15 pm
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Quote:
I think Brad would agree with me here, because I think we're saying the same thing: And that is, you have to be passionate about what you do to the extent that you love it SO much you have come up with an identity, a sound, a vision for yourself that you have perfected to the point that other people can see and hear, too.


thank you, my sentiments exactly. just because you buy records and can mix two together, you're not necessarily a dj. i like to work with people who have been eating, drinking, and sleeping this shit for years and years and truly appreciate the music. it kills me when i talk to people who think they're experts of a certain genre and don't know the history of it or the pioneers that helped create it.


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Posted by: Tymezup Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 3:29 pm
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What about a few guys recently I have watched walk into a bar, hand a demo to an owner/manager/bartender and walk out. Even just to play at open tables night.


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Posted by: validation Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 3:34 pm
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What about a few guys recently I have watched walk into a bar, hand a demo to an owner/manager/bartender and walk out. Even just to play at open tables night.
Quote:


who knows, maybe they called ahead to let them know they would drop them off . . . not sure bout this one really.

all i know is that if danny krivit dropped a demo off at my bar, i wouldn't mind that he didnt stay and socialize :wink: i would just be happy i found a dope dj.

[/quote]


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Posted by: Tekatoka Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 3:48 pm
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TymezUp wrote:
What about a few guys recently I have watched walk into a bar, hand a demo to an owner/manager/bartender and walk out. Even just to play at open tables night.


I guess it's all relative. If it were for a truly open, first-come, first-served open decks night, then having a demo shows a bit more dedication than feeling entitled to play just because it's open decks.

As for the guy jetting immediately, it's probably not a big deal. Nightclub people aren't able to talk all the time. Nothing's more frustrating than to have someone trying to have a serious conversation with me about gigs when 1. the music's loud, 2. I'm trying to handle shit at the event, etc....I remember someone trying to talk to Dave about bookings while he was in the middle of mixing records at Moda...a DJ should know enough to know that's not the time or place.

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Posted by: Tymezup Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 3:52 pm
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There is some good stuff here Smile

Keep it up.

How about success stories from djs? How did you get where you are?


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Posted by: Deviant Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 3:57 pm
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It depends on whether you are promoting to make money or just to have fun. If you are trying to make money, then you want to book a DJ who will draw (or who you think will draw) a bunch of people. If not, then you will likely be more willing to take a chance on new talent.

In a bigger city like New York, you will not get booked anywhere unless you can prove that you have the potential to draw people. But how do you draw people if you can't get a gig and establish a fan base? The answer: throw your own events and perform at them. Build up a mailing list. Once you have a sizeable mailing list, you will be a lot more attractive to a promoter/manager/owner. A DJ can't expect to get booked on raw talent alone unless you are a freak like Zabiela. The nightlife scene is a business, so a DJ needs to put him/herself in the businessperson's shoes. If you have two DJs who are equally talented, but one will promote hard and bring 30 friends, while the other gets stoned all day and lays on the couch, who is the promoter more likely to choose?

Now, if you are a promoter who isn't trying to make money, or simply CAN'T make money because there are only 30 people in town who actually understand the music, then perhaps you would choose the stoner, because it's not going to matter either way. But for a DJ trying to get a foot in the door, it's probably better to err on the side of ambition and hustle.

I think that it is also important for DJs to ask themselves where they expect to go with DJing. Are you doing it just for fun, or do you actually want to make a career out of it? If the latter, then start learning how to produce NOW. Unless you are James Holden, it will take you a while to get good at production. But the great thing is, you know how to DJ, so when you become a big producer, your DJing skills are there. Nothing is more annoying than someone who gets booked to DJ all over the world because he/she put out one or two great tracks, but can't DJ for shit. But if you can put out hot tracks and DJ well, then you will be extremely attractive to a promoter. The days of getting booked based solely on your DJ skills are just about done. You won't see too many DJs becoming big because they are great DJs -- these days, you have to be a great producer first, then the DJ gigs come. There will always be exceptions, but as the market becomes flooded with DJs, there are only so many ways that you can stand out.

One last thought: I don't think that it is necessary to perform your DJ sets using all the latest hot-shit technology in order to set yourself apart. Sasha, with all his telekinetic futuristic George Jetson shit, can still drop some crappy sets. 95% of the people in a club don't give a crap about HOW the music is being played, just about whether it rocks/blows their mind/gets them closer to getting laid. Focus on the music itself, then work on the geekery later once you've got the basics down. Mark Strauss is not a good DJ because he uses Ableton Live and a laptop; he is good because he has a deep understanding and passion for the music that he plays, and uses technology to take it to the next level.

DJ because you can't live without the music and are compelled to spread your gospel, not because you want to be Joe Cool and impress the girls who work on your floor.

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Posted by: Tymezup Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 4:34 pm
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well said, david.

When you say "The days of getting booked based solely on your DJ skills are just about done" I have a question and point to make.

Post 1996 were there any djs who really made it based on dj skills?

I think the need for alternative dance clubs that are not percieved as "rave" is becoming apparent. That being said, the point I would like to make is that maybe dj's were never meant to travel. Maybe there is an artform that has been lost. I think the art of djing has been bastardized as an excuse for producers to make additional music playing their own music.

Agree or disagree I don't think you can discount the possibility that the "form factor" of dance music may result in a situation where "electronic music artists" will be understood differently from "nightclubbing".

I'm not aruging... just seeing if that is a final opinion or something you can rethink as not to discourage anyone from trying to be the best damn resident dj they can be Wink


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Posted by: Tekatoka Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 5:23 pm
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Who would rather be a resident DJ rather than a touring DJ, though? Hmmmm...play the same bar in the same city week after week, or be in Hungary one night and Mexico City the next? I don't know about you, but I like to travel.

What does it mean to be a "resident?" "Rave" DJs toured well before the wave of "Producer/DJs" in the club scene...

All depends on your goals. They are different cultures within the same scene. If your only goal is to make the local college girls shake their butts in your hometown, that's one thing....but for many DJs (like Dave), the hometown support for his sound is not as strong, and playing in other cities is a very viable option.

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Posted by: Tymezup Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 5:57 pm
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headrushmusic wrote:
Who would rather be a resident DJ rather than a touring DJ, though? Hmmmm...play the same bar in the same city week after week, or be in Hungary one night and Mexico City the next? I don't know about you, but I like to travel.

What does it mean to be a "resident?" "Rave" DJs toured well before the wave of "Producer/DJs" in the club scene...

All depends on your goals. They are different cultures within the same scene. If your only goal is to make the local college girls shake their butts in your hometown, that's one thing....but for many DJs (like Dave), the hometown support for his sound is not as strong, and playing in other cities is a very viable option.
\

Consider that when you are talking about early rave djs --- the majority of headliners were "Resident djs" who were making extra loot by playing the rave. I'm not wasting time going into the whyfore's and whatnots here... because I'm asking you to look beyond what you think you know and entertain the notion that paths of djs and producers may well diverge.

My goal was never ---not even for one second--- to be a superstar or to travel. The only thing ever crossed my mind (and that was when I was really young) is "maybe one say someone will discover me and move me to new york". MY JOY, MY PASSION is making people dance. Watching them learn. Watching them progress. The ultimate goal? Make the WHOLE ROOM feel how I feel. I want people to look beyond what they think they know and release there is a whole other world out there. I want to get them away from their hum-drum sameness and cookie cutter mentalities. I believe that the dj is a preacher and a teacher --- even before I discovered "house music" and was still playing top40 and rock.

Travelling, sure, nice... but I already know I'm not a producer so I have no need to put on a dj concert. I enjoy other people's music, and enjoy interpreting it in a manner that is sensible to the listener. I don't enjoy being on stage... I think its stupid and the reason people don't take dance music seriously. THINK ABOUT IT.... if you are saying that there is no need for what a dj does (think basic definition here) then you are essentially saying there is no need for your music other than to play it yourself. Why run a label? Why try put it release it on your own label? you should be focusing full effortst on dj concerts and selling that music and that performance to as many people as possible. (Don't comment here... I'm making extreme rhetorical remarks... if you anser it I'm closing the thread).

Now that being said... I don't want to argue opinion. I'd like to include something about production, but there is no way I can sit down and say "If you are going to be succesful as a dj you must be a producer" because that is purely an opinion and closely reminds me of the ones shared by morons on cleveland.com who used to say the djs in cleveland all suck otherwise they would be touring accross the country. I will NOT say anything that supports that nonsense --- or can be twisted into supporting that nonsense.

End of discussion.... if you don't have anything to say productive to the point of the thread then don't say it. Everything else has been very good so far and I thank you guys for it!


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Posted by: Deviant Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 6:48 pm
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TymezUp wrote:

Post 1996 were there any djs who really made it based on dj skills?


I think that they are few and far between. Unless you are a turntablist or someone who combines scratching/quick-mixing with a dance genre (think Bad Boy Bill), it has been very tough for a traditional DJ to get widespread recognition just for DJ skills, probably because there are just so many talented DJs out there on a local level. Plus, I think that putting out a track that becomes popular worldwide is just a faster promotional vehicle than years and years of solid DJing. It's certainly not the only way to become well known, and the Internet has definitely created a new channel for DJs to spread their talents as DJs and not just as producers who also DJ.

That being said, there is certainly nothing wrong with aiming to be successful just on a local level, and doing that is a huge achievement in itself. People should definitely not get into DJing with the sole goal of being world-famous -- it is important to do it just for the art itself, with no expectation or need for financial success or fame. If you persist long enough and stay true to your art, good things will eventually happen on their own, without you trying to force it to happen. Your enjoyment of the art should not be dependent on how successful you become. If you're in it for the money, people will sense that, and you can be certain that you will never be successful. I think that the dance-music biz is unique from other genres in that it is driven more by karma than by politics, money, or good PR.

But I don't think that it is purely opinion to say that producing successful songs is correlated to being successful as a DJ. The vast majority of new DJs ascending in the public eye have done so because of production work (that doesn't necessarily mean that they are great DJs). And a lot of the ones who have been successful for a long time continue to remain so by putting out artist albums that help broaden their audience. I'm certainly not making this conjecture based on my gut feeling, but on what I observe happening on a regular basis.

Some examples: Randall Jones, Derek Howell, James Holden, Sander Kleinenberg, Gabriel & Dresden, Andrew K, ATB, Above & Beyond, Blank & Jones, Satoshi, Slacker, Quivver, Max Graham, Felix, James Lavelle, Darude.

There are, of course, noticeable exceptions, like James Zabiela, Hernan Cattaneo, and Lee Burridge. But I would postulate that your probability of becoming a successful DJ (if you define success as reaching this tier) as being much higher if you include production in your repetoire. But no, there is no rule that says that you can't be successful if you don't produce -- but it won't hurt!

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